Episode 278 - Noah Graff - Enhanced Audio
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Corey Kupfer: [00:00:00] Noah Graff is the host of Swarfcast. A podcast that helps professionals in precision machining excel in their careers. For over a decade, he has been a used machine tool dealer, or a treasure hunter, as he calls it, buying and selling used equipment all over the world. At his family company, Graf Pinker. In recent years, his company has brokered several successful M& A deals in the precision machining, industry. He's also a blogger and editor for a B2B website called Today's Machining World, directed at the, at the precision machining community. Every day, he strives to be in serendipity, to be a serendipity magnet, and that's something he and I talked about.
And I'll pre call it. I want to definitely get that in here. He strives to be a serendipity magnet, seeking, seeing, and seizing new opportunities he finds everywhere. I am so excited, to have you on the podcast. Welcome Noah.
Noah Graff: Oh, thank you for having me. This is so much [00:01:00] fun.
Corey Kupfer: Great. So Noah, before we get into, everything you've done in terms of some of these M& A deals that you've helped facilitate in this particular niche and your background generally and the conversation of serendipity, I want to take you back to when you were a little kid growing up, maybe 8, 10, 12 years old.
What did you want to be? Because for most of our guests, It turns out, probably not what they're doing now, but for you, it was a family business, so who knows? You tell me.
Noah Graff: Yeah, the family business always seemed like something in my back pocket, I suppose. But, no when I was growing up, I'd say my passion was, filmmaking.
And, my friend and I we first got into it, actually, we were in 7th or 8th grade, and we watched the film, Back to the Future 3, and at the end of the movie, they got this flying train, and we were just like, oh, this is ridiculous. I bet you, If we tried, we could make something even [00:02:00] worse.
And so the next year, the next day we made Back to the Future 4, in which case, I would get flushed down the toilet whenever I'd go to the bathroom. And then. My friend would all of a sudden be the main character. It's amazing when you're a kid, how you're just not held by rules like you are now.
I mean, it's like, all right, I'm the character in the present and he's the character in the past or the future or wherever. And it doesn't matter. Yeah, that was. What I wanted to do, and then in college, I majored in film, communication arts and history. And, then I lived in Italy for a little while after I graduated.
I had studied abroad there and fell in love with the place and, made a documentary about this restaurant there. And that's a whole other story, but came back and I was sort of at a crossroads. And, My dad, he had started [00:03:00] this, B2B, magazine about precision machining. Cause he, this business was started 80 years ago, buying and selling, machines, specifically they're called screw machines.
These are capital equipment, meant for making round parts that go into automotive or aerospace or medical. But my dad had been a, he had been a journalism, master's degree. He had gotten a journalism master's degree. So he started this magazine. And then he says to me, this is like 2005. And it was a little ahead of his time.
He's like, Oh, broadband's coming. You can make videos that go along with the, go along with our content, and I didn't know what I wanted to do at the time, and I wasn't, so I said, alright, I'll give it a shot, and I went and worked for that, I made some videos, and I got into the editing, and writing, and then, eventually, in about [00:04:00] 2011, we decided to take the magazine all online, and it became a magazine.
More or less a blog, and it finally made a little bit of money. And, and then, I was like, alright, well, we have time, why don't I try The family business the treasure hunting business, and, that's funny the way it got to be the treasure hunting, because I was seeing an analyst, at the time, and, I was still trying to figure things out aren't we all?
We're still trying to figure things out right now, right? Yeah. But I said to him, I was telling him about this documentary I was making at the time, because I was always doing these side projects. I was making a documentary about
Corey Kupfer: this film thing continues? It just continues?
Noah Graff: It continues, yeah. I was making a documentary about Ferris Bueller's Day Off and all the locations that he goes in the movie.
And so, because I live in Chicago, so we'd go to like the Sears Tower, or we'd go to, we got this Ferrari replica, and we went to the house, and went, [00:05:00] everywhere, and I was telling my psychologist about all the locations, and, the hunt to find all these places, and he's like, you're a treasure hunter, and this is what you do, when you're looking, we scour the world.
I'm looking for equipment. We go everywhere. I've bought machines in like a barn in Slovenia. We've bought machines. I'm telling you, we, it was this machine in Slovenia and behind a wall you could hear a cow mooing. And it was just this crazy esoteric machine that this Spanish customer of ours had, for some reason, wanted.
And, so we, gone everywhere, to find machines. We've bought machines out in, from underground caves where, they were keeping the U. S. arsenal. We've bought machines, just from [00:06:00] the strangest people in all different continents, so , that's kind of how I got to where I am today, as far as, I know this is an M& A, centered podcast, so .
Corey Kupfer: Before jump to that, I want us to build up a little bit more. The, because it's really interesting to me, this concept of, sort of, treasure hunting, which can apply across, so, whether it's scouting locations for a documentary. Or whether it's finding machines that you know,
Noah Graff: finding your finding the love of your life.
Corey Kupfer: There you go. There you go. And that concept of treasure hunting. I know you were, because we had a quick pre call and I want to.
Noah Graff: He had a great pre call, by the way.
Corey Kupfer: Oh, thank you. Yeah, it was a lot of fun. So yeah, how does that, let's keep the theme of treasure hunting, or I don't know if you want to even bring in the serendipity conversation now.
Of course. Because, that, it's not like, there was, the impression I got from our pre call was that, The move to be involved in M& A in this space, because obviously buying and selling machines [00:07:00] is a deal of types, but that's more on the sales side, which is not what this podcast is about.
But this sort of treasure hunting mentality and sort of serendipity outlook led you to be involved in M& A as well, right?
Noah Graff: Well, serendipity is all about one thing leading you to the next thing, one of the things I, on my podcast, I interview people in our business in precision machining.
But the other thing I love to talk about is serendipity, and making your own luck, which is, but we all do. Some people are better at it than others. And in the machinery business it's all about. Connections and noticing things and you'll be talking to one person and they'll mention They had this machine that they were trying to sell and they couldn't sell it and then a week later You'll talk to somebody else and in the middle of the conversation Something will come up about that machine and you just put these two two and two things together and you're like, holy crap[00:08:00] how did this quote unquote coincidence happen, you know? So we'll go back. Serendipity, sometimes I deviate a little bit on the podcast and interview just interesting people, who I happen to hear on other podcasts or meet. And there's a guy who wrote a book about serendipity. It's called The Serendipity Mindset. His name is Christian Bush, and I had already been using these principles a lot, but when you are conscious of them, when you're present, when you're mindful of certain things, then all of a sudden you go, Oh, okay, now I can really harness them.
So I'll just go over a few of them that some of them are just. Some of them you'll go, Oh, it's sort of obvious. And some of them will go, Oh, well, this is kind of golden. So one, the first thing he does, and this is sort of intuitive. It's called serendipity bombs. So you need anything. Say you're, in M& [00:09:00] A and you have, you have a company for sale, and you're looking for a buyer.
You don't just go and contact one person who seems good, you might do a bunch of research and you find one company and you contact 10 of them because, and, these are often, they're often long shots. And I know in M and a it's usually seems like it's a long shot, no matter how good a fit.
Some company seems right. You contact ten of them, and then maybe one comes back, and it works out. Okay, so Did you get lucky when you found that company? I suppose, but you made your own luck by contacting a whole bunch of people. Yeah, it makes sense But if you're thinking about it, then you'll actually do it.
And another one that I love This is called serendipity hooks. So this is where There are certain [00:10:00] things you can do in a conversation to make important information come out. Now it's not just about being a good listener in conversations because, if you're letting the other person do all the talking, you're going to learn important things.
But sometimes you need to say certain things for important things to come out. So, like, the simplest thing would be, for instance, If somebody asks you, Corey, what do you do for a living? Right? Or somebody asked me, what do I do for a living? I could say, well, I'm a used machine tool dealer.
And often people will go, huh? Or if you say to somebody, you're an MNA, some people are going to get it and a lot of people aren't. So what you could say instead of that, you say, well, I'm a machinery dealer, but, I also have a podcast. And, I'm really into film, and I love salsa dancing, but I don't really have much time to do [00:11:00] it because, now I have a one year old kid.
And all of a sudden you have like six things to talk about. People love to talk about kids. People love, some people, they'll go, What? You're, you have a podcast? Like, I have a podcast. I listen to podcasts all day. And some of these things, you know, they may seem tangential, but then you connect with them.
And information will come out. So where it goes with the M& A stuff is I'll call people about a machine, to buy or sell a machine, and then it'll get to the point in the conversation, where maybe we've already talked about the machine. And then At the end of the conversation, I go, well, but one other thing, before I get off from you, I have to ask all our customers about this.
Are you looking to acquire another company to get new business? I often don't like to say, are you looking to sell your company? Cause [00:12:00] I don't know. I wonder about people's reaction. In retrospect, I feel like people have less of a bad reaction than. I don't know how you feel about that. But in any case, then they go, well, actually, yeah you know, we're getting old.
We're retiring. You know, we're, figures crossed about to close on a company in Canada. And, yeah, he called about a machine, this , it's called a Citizen, it's a CNC machine, and he really was, he was just curious. A lot of people just call because they're just curious they want free information, they want the price, etc.
And then I told him about it, told him about what we do, and then next thing you know, we call this one guy who's always interested in every company. You know the type. You've got like your few go to people where, yes, I'm interested, give me information. And, sure enough, like six months later, him, we're [00:13:00] right on the verge of selling the company.
This guy, there was no, there was no business to be done with buying or selling a machine. He just, he really wasn't in the market, but it was contact. And all of a sudden you say things and then information comes out. So, like those are two of the best thing. And then, it's just making connections, lots of connections, having conversations, you do, you know what they.
They call it connecting the dots. And, what this guy says, not only, do you, is it good to conne can to get more dots for yourself, to meet as many people as possible, it's really good to connect other people to each other. And so, when you meet somebody new, the first thing you do is, you think, who else do I know who, could benefit from meeting this person?
And then you make a [00:14:00] match, and it's like, All of a sudden, the universe just comes to you because you're making dots, and you're connecting dots, and it's just a beautiful thing, and, you just, you have to keep your eyes and your ears open, you may hear something from someone, and it's just all of a sudden, you think it's a coincidence, but, a lot of it is just you're mindful.
And Corey, seems like you're really into like personal development stuff. So I'm sure you think about mindfulness a lot. In the morning, I do like a gratitude list and I do these, this I am like aphorism list. So I, I say, I am a serendipity magnet. I create. I see, and I seize, opportunity everywhere.
And I say that a whole bunch of times to myself in the morning, and then, by doing that, like, I'm ready for when I'm out [00:15:00] and I'm talking to people, just making connections in my head, remembering to maybe, Talk to somebody a little longer than you might have. Give somebody a try, and just keep your eyes and your ears open.
You just gotta be mindful of it. So, I don't know, I find it really exciting. I love to talk about it. I love, I do solo podcasts where I talk about it and, It's like, and I know Corey, I know you can relate to this, where the more you talk about something, the more you understand it better. And yeah I'm just, it's my thing.
Serendipity is my thing. And it just it makes life Really interesting and I love talking about it.
Corey Kupfer: I love it. And listen, it's interesting for if anybody is a new listener or viewer of this podcast, you might say, oh wow, Okay, we mentioned m& a but You know, this whole conversation, serendipity, interesting conversation [00:16:00] for an M& A.
And it's not an M& A, it's for a deals podcast of all types. But a long term listeners will understand that we bring all kinds of elements that impact deals into this. It's not, we don't just have on investment bankers to talk about how you value companies or how you shop them or your package them or whatever.
And one of the things that I love about this conversation is that we've had many, many guests on, no matter what their role has been, buyers, sellers, intermediaries, et cetera, could talk about, the value of relationships and networks, right, to be able to get deals done. Yeah.
You know, think about what we just talked about. The, this conversation, you mentioned so many things. Just that people might've, missed, you talked about talking to somebody a little longer, you talked about these serendipity hooks, that asked the kind of questions that, they bring out some commonalities or connections that, you wouldn't otherwise, have, people ask me all the time, how do I find deals?
Well, there's sort of traditionally easy way to say, oh, well, you can have a broker or investment banker, search for a company for you, or you can go on this listing service, or you can. Whatever. But [00:17:00] the best deals are always found. Through relationship, through connection, through, who you know, or who you know, you know, knows somebody, so all of the stuff.
Noah Graff: That's what we like to, when we, you know, we've only been doing M& A a couple years. We've only done, I mean, you know, you could probably count on two hands how many we've done. Yeah. I feel we can still say to people, we've been in business 80 years, because we have all the contacts, we understand the industry, and, half the time, we know, personally, at least one of the parties, but often, both of them, and it's totally different when you know both of them because you've already dealt with them already, you kind of know if somebody's a good fit, you know, it's less surprises, so as you said, those are the ones that usually work when you're not, yeah, it's exciting if you meet two different people and they both connect, , [00:18:00] that's cool, but it's all serendipity really, advertising is serendipity as well, but you're putting hooks out there when you do it and one hook might lead to another, half the time you put a machine out on one of these sites and somebody calls about it.
Yeah. Yeah. And they aren't even interested in that machine. They're interested in a totally different machine. Or they're interested in buying and selling a company. I had another guy who's looking for a company. And he called about a machine we had on our website. And he's like, Well, I just want to know what these things are worth.
Which, sometimes you get annoyed when people are like trying to get free information. But at the same time, the more I talk to them, then I realized, oh, this is why he's calling. This is why he wants the values because he's thinking of buying a company. Boom.
Corey Kupfer: So, when these opportunities come up through serendipity or, just the general outlook that's led you guys to, [00:19:00] this, sort of this progression right to where you got involved in M& A.
Talk to me a little bit more about the role you're playing. Obviously, you're, you already alluded to making a connection between a buyer and a seller potentially based upon who you know and you know what they're looking for. And then, what are you beyond introductions, tell me what else you do to help facilitate those kinds of deals happening.
Noah Graff: Sure. I'm not, I'm not gonna lie, I'm not gonna say that I, have worked for an investment bank, I'm not a lawyer, we let the lawyers go and mess it up, on their own, but we're the people that are the go between, each one is talking to us, and we're making it happen. We're not at this point. Some of the time we have been kind of the negotiator on behalf of people, but often people have an idea of really what they want. And then we take a more hands off approach. But I think as we get [00:20:00] more experienced at it, might be a little bit more hands on.
But even when it's we're not the people. Making one offer and taking an offer back and we're the people who are going the sounding board, you know, and what are, what, what's going on with this guy and what, why is he doing this? And we can go, well, we've got a lot of experience with this guy.
He's tough. He will go down to the last detail, but he really means business. So, a lot of it is just that we're matchmakers, but I don't think, we do a lot more than that, just sort of the intangibles, and if there's a case where people need help in, I'll tell you the other thing we do that's unique, when you're dealing with manufacturing businesses, a lot of it, as you know, it's all the capital equipment is a huge piece of it.
So, [00:21:00] And we're only staying in our niche, we're not trying to do all kinds of, we're not trying to do a window factory. I mean, this is pretty much precision machined parts. Yes. So we can go in and we can tell people. What the equipment is worth. Sure. And if we can't, we know tons of dealers who can.
So that gives us a lot of cred and a lot of ability to advise, you know, because we can say, if you had an auction this would be worth X. And even some of the people we work with who are really experienced and very savvy, they still want us to give our take about What stuff would be worth if you liquidated it, et cetera.
And the other thing we've done is a few times, the equipment we sell, a lot of it is, mechanical machines. Some of these machines are like 60 years old. [00:22:00] And if you had an auction with these machines, they'd be worth nothing. I mean, you'd get 5, 000 for them. However, if these machines have work on them if there's a specific contract that's being made on these machines.
All of a sudden, this 5, 000 piece of equipment is worth a hell of a lot more than 5, 000.
Corey Kupfer: Right, because you're buying a piece of business, not just a machine.
Noah Graff: Right, and that's the whole reason somebody's buying a business, because, so And often this is, in a way, better, because then you don't have all the BS of, like, all this due diligence stuff and all the Lawyers and all the, sorry, no offense.
But so we had this case, What's it, last year? Maybe it was the year before, I don't know. We bought a company, they had 30 machines, they're called Davenports, and these are machines that, if we sold them, maybe we could get 30, 000 [00:23:00] for, but if they were at an auction, they'd get 5, 000. But, We knew of a private equity firm that had, factories with these machines, in Mexico, in the United States, etc.
So rather than, sell them the company and make them fold it up, we went to the owner of the factory and we Just bought all of their machines with the good faith that their customers would stay with it And we knew you know a worst case scenario We'd have a bunch of machines that we knew how to sell you know we come out whole in the end right But we were able to like 3x, what we had bought, and, obviously nothing is, nothing is easy, nothing is simple, and there's risk, but it's nice to be able to, to do that.
We're trying, we tried another one last year, [00:24:00] and it didn't work, so now we're having it, now we're having an auction, and, we'll make a little bit of change. With it, and it's, it's a gamble when you actually buy stuff, but, this is a way where we differentiate ourselves, and then maybe like we could cherry pick a machine, like in the middle of the deal, maybe the person that, that happened on another deal the buyer didn't want, the buyer wanted the company, and he didn't want, a couple of the machines, and we said, alright we'll buy these machines, and, then we can make the deal happen.
Corey Kupfer: Listen, a lot of people would want, I mean, what you're describing is a deal that in the worst case scenario, because of your core business and ability to sell machines, you know, and find the right buyers who will pay more than liquidation value. It's, you have the advantage, how many people would want to do a deal where your downside is, break even or make a few bucks in the worst case scenario, right?
And your upside is 3x that or whatever, right? That's a great situation where because of your expertise and your company's expertise and [00:25:00] relationships, theoretically, the downside is that you liquidate the machines and end up, at even a plus or even plus a little bit. That's a great deal to do.
Noah Graff: Yeah. If you can find them and, like the one that. We're auctioning off now. It's just a pity because I think this was a case of like the company, maybe one of the owners died or something and then the other owner was just like, I quit and before they could even get their heads together to think of selling it as an ongoing business.
They already closed the company and then you're kind of like scrambling to, see if the work will stay and, it's difficult. It's a moving target. If ever, if it was easy, everybody would do it, right?
Corey Kupfer: Yep. So Noah I want to switch gears a little bit and, and talk about another kind of deal, which is, a business partnership deal that we talked about and family business and that conversation. I know, you said that the family business was always in your.
In your back pocket [00:26:00] there. You, talked about your documentary film dreams and things like that. Now you got involved.
Noah Graff: Still doing crazy projects on the side. You know,
Corey Kupfer: it's awesome. I love it. And I'm a big, my wife and I have big documentary fans. We watch a lot of them where it's part of our thermal philanthropic efforts.
So we, we look to. , it's in our goal to fund, some documentaries over time. But, on the family business side, there are so many dynamics and, , it's been a little while, but we've had some folks on who are either family business experts who've been in family businesses, and, you hear these, all these crazy stories about the problems with some family businesses.
You obviously, there are great examples of family businesses that have grown and, great legacy businesses. You hear. You know, that second generation, but even more so often third generation often screw up the business. Greg's the richest of regs, yeah. So what is it, I mean, obviously, as we mentioned, you know, you, nobody needs to disclose anything they're in trouble with, but I know you, No, no.
Working with your father and how, uhh,
Noah Graff: You know, it's complicated, obviously. My dad worked with his brother for, I don't know, 40 [00:27:00] years or something. And then, they, Not to start out with the negative aspect, sometimes divorces are important with relationships, you know?
I just, Working with my dad is just, it's just such a precious, amazing thing, , we publish these blogs every week, he writes a blog, and then I do a podcast, which is sort of half podcast, half blog, and then I'll always edit his blogs and then we'll go back and forth.
Noah Graff: What's the title? What's the question? What are people gonna think about it? Sometimes you have to just stop yourself and go, Wow, this is so cool, I'm 43, he's you know, we're just, or we'll just be talking about a deal. And he's very cerebral. He's very problem solving. He loves to analyze stuff [00:28:00] and, it probably annoys other people, in that he and I think the most alike in the office.
We definitely don't agree on everything. But overall. We, you know, 99 percent of the time we come to a, an agreement, sometimes he's just goes, No, I'm doing this. And I go, all right. Well, it's I'll do that if it's not like the worst thing in the world. He You know, he's my mentor and sometimes he says I'm his mentor, which is amazing.
Like I'm always, he likes podcasts and, and books and stuff, but I'm always like, I have a commute and I'm always listening to a lot of podcasts and books and recommending it to him. And it's, it's just funny how, like when he was my age, I grew up driving in the car, and he was always playing Tony Robbins, [00:29:00] and he's like the original, like the OG of podcast listeners, so , And now I'm the one going, Oh, check out this episode about, mindfulness or, or, you know, I, I was, I know you're in the negotiation.
I was, never split the difference. Chris Voss, it became like my Bible and it. I've influenced him to try to use those tactics, sometimes he just throws it out the window because he's been doing it his way for 50 years and, but at the same time it's great when you just, and sometimes at the office, all of us will just go, what are you crazy?
You're totally wrong. Like, how can you? And then sometimes, He's just totally right and you just, we all look a little stupid, like goes with his gut, and that's what you have to do when you're the head honcho of a company and it's just, it's amazing to work together and we know [00:30:00] it's not forever and we really do give an effort to sometimes to stop and go, wow, this is really something.
Corey Kupfer: Yeah, it's such a beautiful thing that, I wanted you to talk about that because I, You mentioned that in the pre call and, and it's not just your words, but it's the expression on your face and the energy and how you talk about it. And I know, listen, I always, I often say business partnerships can be tough.
I've been in a few, you know, some businesses it's worked really well. I've had, a couple of them have gone, they've run the course, let's say, and, when you add in, so that's just business partnerships generally. And when you add in, you know, family involved in it, it can be very complex.
And, as a lawyer, like we got, you know, we're going on now. I've dealt with them before actually with brothers who are, splitting up a company. The, because they're not getting along and it's, it's always sad to see. So, that ability to treasure the moments.
And, when you're in a, you know, a partnership and appreciate the other person. And then when the fact that when it's your dad, it's actually a very special thing. Yeah,
Noah Graff: it's really special. And now that I'm a [00:31:00] father, I've got a one and three quarter year old. And it's just, I think to my, and he's just learning to like speak, but I just think to myself, Whoa, that would be so, that would be pretty cool to be working with him.
I can't even fathom it really. But then you, you know, it just makes you reflect about. How special it is. My, my brother and sister, they both didn't go into the business. And my sister's a rabbi. My brother is a. A psychologist and a coach and, I was talking to my niece the other day.
We were all together for the holidays and we were all talking about giving advice to people. I talk about serendipity. He's a coach for men. She's a rabbi. My niece was like, you guys all do the same thing. Right. Right. We're all talking about our morning rituals and all that.
Corey Kupfer: Love it. So now my final two questions, I'm going to hop into now because we're coming on time.
Although, there's so much more [00:32:00] we can talk about, before I ask you my final question. I second last question here is just how can people find out more about you and your company and the things you guys are up to?
Noah Graff: Oh, thank you for asking. Yeah, isn't it a pain when you forget that question or like when, right.
So if you're looking for a CNC machine tool or a screw machine, Our company is called Graph Pinkert, G R A F F P I N K E R T. Today's machine world is our blog. And I would love it if you would give my podcast a try. It's called Swarfcast, S W A R F as in Frank and then C A S T. It's sort of an insider, word, that Swarf, I guess.
It's like the grime and oil and chips and crud in the bottom of a machine in the belly of a machine And so that kind of became our brand way back when so that's where it [00:33:00] comes from But so the podcast is called Swarfcast
Corey Kupfer: Awesome. Awesome. Awesome So now my final question of the podcast is always about my highest value in life My highest ideal which is freedom and for me that means everything from freedom for all people around the world from oppression to why I've been an entrepreneur for decades and haven't had a boss.
What does freedom mean to you and how does it impact your life and business?
Noah Graff: All right. Well, thank God I prepared for this podcast listen to one of them yesterday one of the best of where you talk to like five people where they answer this question So, it gave me food for thought You know a lot of what they all said things that I think about all the time like freedom of your time free to have time to do whatever you want, not tied down, money freedom, you're not worried about running out and, but I, it's, but I had to think of something more interesting than that, and I think it really comes down to mindset,[00:34:00] you have to be free in your mind, because, I don't feel like, I don't have, I feel like I don't have enough, you Money to feel free, to not have worries, I have goals.
Other people, you know, 99 percent of the world would look at what I have and say, what are you, crazy? You have no problems. You have Tons of time. You have tons of money. Like don't cry me a river. It really just comes down to how you look at things.
You have to be free inside to feel all of these great things that, that I know you talk about. Just, the freedom of entrepreneurship, Of, being able to replace yourself, a lot of entrepreneurs, they, I'm not an entrepreneur at this point. I aspire to be. And I know, but I've read a lot and thought about it a lot and, if [00:35:00] you can't replace yourself in your job, you own a job and, that's not freedom whatsoever, I guess, obviously it's the same stuff that everybody says, or a lot of people say it's just freedom to do, what I want with my time and freedom to not worry about it.
about money, et cetera, but that's just all mindset. It's, so much of it is mindset, obvious, what, they have some statistic where like, if you make 70, 000 or more, then it's really just comes down to, to mindset. I mean, my grandfather, he was rich, you know, he had several houses. He lived during the Great Depression.
He was always worried about having enough money. Yeah, probably. I don't know if he felt free. Even though he had the ability to take off work if he wanted or if, but if you don't feel that you have that ability, then you're not free at [00:36:00] all. That's my response.
Corey Kupfer: Love that Noah. And listen, our, anybody podcast for any amount of time knows I talk about mindset a lot.
So the fact that you brought it back to mindset. And your answer is, it's just a, confirmation that I'm not alone here talking about mindset. Noah Graff, thank you for being such a great guest on the DealQuest podcast.
Noah Graff: Thank you. Thank you for, doing an awesome interview. I'm a student of these, having listened to many and done many.
And yeah, it was a great interview. Had a great time well done.
Corey Kupfer: Thanks again for being on, till next week.
