DealQuest 288 with Dov Baron - Episode 54 Remaster
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Corey Kupfer: [00:00:00] Do you want your business to grow faster? Are you open to new and out of the box ways to drive revenues and increase value? How do you imagine the most successful entrepreneurs and business leaders double, triple, or expand their businesses tenfold or more? This is a weekly podcast featuring conversations with business owners, executives, and leaders as we reveal behind the scenes details that give you, our listeners, the confidence to pursue your own deal driven growth.
On the show, we discuss a huge variety of deals, everything from large companies X mergers and acquisitions, capital raising joint ventures, strategic alliances, real estate, affiliate and sponsorship deals, and more, including smaller deals that you could do without significant capital. My name is co cuter and I've been supporting deal driven growth for businesses for over 35 years.
As a successful entrepreneur, professional, negotiator, and attorney, my goal is to help you strategize, plan for find and complete deals that will help your company grow [00:01:00] faster. Welcome to the Deal Quest podcast. Let's get started. DealQuest community, I'm so excited to introduce you to a remastered episode of the DealQuest podcast.
The podcast has grown so much. We started it about five years ago now, at least at the point of recording this. In the beginning, had maybe 60 or 80 listeners per episode. We now have many multiples of that. In fact, we've got almost a hundred times that. And I realized that there were so many great interviews I did early on in the podcast.
In fact, in the first year of the podcast. It wasn't even called a deal quest. It was called fueling deals until we rebranded it. And we interviewed some amazing, amazing entrepreneurs and dealmakers. And, you know, just amazing stories, amazing content. And I know that so many of our listeners have joined us over the last several years and may not have heard some of those earlier episodes from five years ago, four years ago, even three years ago.
So we have picked the best of the best of those old episodes and the advice and the [00:02:00] stories and the experiences are timeless. So we've remastered them, made sure the audio is great. And put in our new intro and outro, that kind of stuff. And we're going to be re releasing some of these amazing, amazing episodes.
So look out for them from time to time. And here's one coming up right now. My guest today is Dov Barron, twice cited as Inc. Magazine's top 100 leadership speakers to hire. Also cited in meaning and event professionals guide to the top 100 motivational speakers and named as one of the top 30 global leadership gurus.
Dub is a man with a finger on the pulse of the evolving world of next gen leadership. He's a bestselling author of several books. His latest book, fiercely loyal, how high performing companies develop and retain talent. Um, he is the host of a National U. S. TV show pursuing deep greatness with Dove Barron on Roku TV and the host of the number one podcast for Fortune 500 listeners globally, Dove Barron's [00:03:00] Leadership and Loyalty Show on iTunes.
FM and AM radio stations across the U. S. And I had a, the, uh, the pleasure of being a guest on that, uh, on the show about a year ago. And it's, it's really a pleasure. I mean, when Dove and I first connected, got introduced prior to when I was on his podcast, we just really hit it off. And, you know, I, I, I always enjoy having various guests on the show, but I'm super excited to have Doug here because he and I both aligned on many things like around leadership and authenticity.
And uh, I, you know, you're going to get a lot of value, uh, listeners welcome Doug Barron to the show.
Dov Baron: Thank you, Corey. It's a pleasure and honor to be here. I'm excited to, to share anything that adds value to your audience. And, uh, I want to thank you for having me on and let you know that for those of you who haven't heard Corey on my show, what a great guest you were, mate, it was really good.
And the way that you. Understand and communicate about negotiating and getting deals in a very authentic way is [00:04:00] powerful and important in every, every aspect of leadership.
Corey Kupfer: Well, that's great, my friend. So listen, uh, you know, before we get into all the amazing things you're doing now and how you help leaders and companies grow, I want to take you back.
Um, so when you, when you were a little kid growing up, what did you want to be? Because my guess is a, you know, leadership speaker, you know, Uh, coach consultant, uh, certainly PI, uh, we, you know, podcast didn't exist when you and I were growing up. So my, my guess is maybe that wasn't it. But when you were eight or 10 or 12 years old, what, what are you, what did you want to be?
Dov Baron: Well, what I wanted to be, um, was based on my skills and talent was, uh, something everybody thought I would be, including me. And that was an artist. My art was in galleries by the time I was 10 or 11 years old, and I figured that was what I was going to be. And I spoke, uh, probably about three, four years ago at a startup [00:05:00] event that was done for high school, uh, here in, in my home city.
And, um, and I was speaking to this group and I said, uh, people are going to tell you what you should be and don't listen to them. And even if you're good at it, you have to decide what you really want to be the cause to your heart. So I was very good at art. I wanted to be it, but it wasn't truly what was deep in my heart and my soul.
And that actually happened when, again, without me really understanding what it was. When I was 10 and I walked into the living room and I saw my mom crying and they didn't know why she was crying. And I, you know, be a 10 year old. I read it and was like, mom, what's going on. And she was wiping away the tears from her eyes and pointing to the TV and said, he's dead.
And when I looked at the TV set, that wasn't a TV star. It wasn't a movie star. It wasn't even a soccer player. I didn't know who it was. It was just this black guy who I had no idea who he was. And then I listened carefully and he said, [00:06:00] I have a dream that one day and I just was glued and I didn't know who Martin Luther King was.
And I went away and asked my uncle who was the smartest member of the family. And he told me about the civil rights movement and about how Martin Luther King had followed Gandhi's path of peaceful resistance. And I was totally inspired by the idea, this is what was interesting, by the idea that now you remember I'm a 10 year old boy living in, in Northern England in a ghetto.
And I was fascinated by this idea that this black man on the other side of the world was making my mom, a poor Jewish woman, cry. That he had managed to move her. And there was something in that, in that moment that was like. Wow, we can have that much influence and I didn't even understand it, but I believe that that was the seeds of me going out and doing what it is that I do in
Corey Kupfer: the world today.
What an amazing story, Dov. I mean, so first of all, I learned something new [00:07:00] about you. I didn't know that you were, uh, you know, an artist as a kid and I sort of laughed when you said that because You know, so many people go the other way, right? They're, they're in business and they really want to be an honest, you know, and that's their calling.
So you have the opposite journey, which is fascinating to start with. And then of course that, you know, that, that, that, that story of that, you know, a 10 year old boy singing his mother cry and yeah, it happened to be, you know, Martin Luther King on the other side of the world. I mean, that's, that's, you know, I'm, that's so moving to me.
And it's an amazing story.
Dov Baron: Yeah. And if I may add something there, you know, I told you that I was at that startup speaking to these kids and one of the, one of the kids was asking me about it and I said, you know, I'd been an artist and they, one of the kids asked me, well, do you still do art? And I said, no.
I mean, I sketch occasionally, but that's about it. And this kid said, don't you miss it? And I said, no. And we got to the end of the presentation and I said, yeah, You know, they thanked me and I said, I just want to thank you. And I said, I particularly want to thank you. And I pointed to this young lady who'd asked the question about [00:08:00] me missing being an artist.
And I said, you know, I really want to thank you because you made me think about something. And she said, what's that? And I said, Well, I said I didn't miss it, and to miss something means you think about it, and you think, I haven't done that in a while, and I don't do that. She goes, oh, okay, and I said, because I've realized why, and she said, what?
I said, do you know the story of Michelangelo's David? And she said, no. I said, well, David is a statue in Venice, and she said, yeah. When I said, well, apparently, Michelangelo was asked, how did you create David, this magnificent piece of art from a slab of marble? And Michelangelo said, I didn't, I just chipped away everything else.
And I said, and I thank you for asking me the question, because today I realize I'm still an artist. What I do, this is what I do in my private work with my one on one leaders, is I chip away everything that's not real, that they don't even know is false, to reveal the [00:09:00] magnificence, the deep greatness that is within them, that will allow them to create the legacy they're creating the world.
So. I'm still an artist. Yeah.
Corey Kupfer: You're just working in a different medium. Very cool. Very cool. So I want to hear more about that, but before we go there, one other question taking you back, what was your first real business? However, you define that
Dov Baron: my first real business. Okay. Well, now we're in, now we're in, now we're really going down memory lane.
Um, I left school 14 years old. and began an apprenticeship. I did a four year apprenticeship in 10 months, um, uh, which was in hairdressing, of all things. And by the time I was 15, I was teaching in the academy, um, of course, laying through my teeth about my age. Uh, fortunately I could grow facial hair very young.
Um, and, uh, and so, and I left that, uh, before I was [00:10:00] 16, 15 and a half, left that job and started a mobile hairdressing salon on my bicycle, this huge bag across my shoulder with all my gear in it. And I would cycle literally for miles and miles and go and have, and I started a business and it was called Hand Dressing Parties.
Where I would get five, six, 10 women in a, in a home. Then I would do their hair in the home of one of these people and made cash money for it. And remember the first time I did it cycling home at like 11 o'clock at night, just feeling like I was a millionaire with how notes literally squashed into my pockets, that was my
Corey Kupfer: first business.
I love that. And you know, and it's funny because it, it, uh, brings up two memories for me. One is that my father. When he first, uh, you know, he, he, uh, didn't go to college immediately out of high school. He went into the army, got out and then he went to hairdressing school. Oh, really? And this [00:11:00] is before I was born.
Apparently he only did that for about a year and decided he couldn't do it for a living. Um, right. And I ended up moving into something very differently, but, but that did cause him to be the one who cut our hair as a kid for my entire, my entire time growing up. So that was, that's one memory. And the other thing about the bicycle is, you know, my first business was when I was 15.
Real business. I mean, I had, you know, uh, let's call them contractors because I wasn't withholding withholding any taxes for them, but I had quote unquote employees, contractors who would deliver flyers door to door in Brooklyn, which is, I work for a company doing that and I got my own accounts, but because I didn't drive, I had to ride around on my bicycle to check up on them to make sure that they were delivering the flyers.
So we, uh, you know, the bicycle connection as well. That bike saved my life. I love it. I love it. Okay. So now let's talk a little bit, you know, and then we'll, we'll, we'll swing over to talk about some deals, but let's talk a little, you know, you alluded a little bit, I mean, between the intro that I read and you just alluded a little bit to the work you do with leaders now.
Um, [00:12:00] so, you know, give the audience a little more, um, uh, color on, uh, you know, on, on, on what you're doing now and, and how you impact, uh, leaders the way you do. Thank
Dov Baron: you. Yeah, as you know, I speak all over the world. I work with companies and organizations, but I also work privately with high level leaders who are CEOs, C suite leaders, high level entrepreneurs, artists, entertainers, etc.
And the people I work with are https: otter. ai Successful in the world. I mean, I would say that my clients are the people that others look at and go, I want to be you when I grow up and they're saying, what's next, what is next? They understand there's something greater. And what I do, the work that I do, is allow them, show them a way to go on what we call a heroic journey to, into the depths of their soul to find out their deep purpose.
It's very, very popular to now, thanks to [00:13:00] Simon Sinek, to look for your why. And I think that's important, but as the title of the book says, start with why. Okay. Right. But where do you go next? And you go deeper, not, not, not shallower, deeper. So what is the why of your why? What is your soul's purpose? That's the work we do.
And, and that is the work that I do privately with my clients. We love doing that work, but it is intense. It is not for people who are interested. It is people who are all in fully committed. And those are people who know how to go there to do that. But, invariably, there is a part of themselves they have to let go of.
That's why I said heroic journey, because you've built a lot of identity to get to the level of success that you've gotten to. But to get to what's next, you actually have to, again, you know, the Michelangelo David thing. There are things we have to chip away to reveal the magnificence of who that person is.
And that is, for me, is so delicious [00:14:00] as work to do and to watch what happens in the explosion of people's actual, interestingly enough, that the success level goes through the roof. I mean, I have many clients who've literally grown their businesses by 5, 000%, but the focus was not on the business. The focus was on having them get deeply, more deeply connected to their soul's purpose.
Fascinating and fabulous work.
Corey Kupfer: Yeah. It's amazing. I mean, those identity conversations, I mean, that's, that's some of the deepest work you can do. And, uh, and you know, whether you call an identity or whether it's, you know, you call it the ego or whether, you know, Bob Proctor would, you know, refers to the spirit.
You know, his paradigms and he goes, you know, uh, fights like hell to keep that paradigm in place, right? Absolutely. I mean, it's, you know, it's very, you know, it's, it's, it's not for the faint of heart. That's for sure.
Dov Baron: No. And, and, and, and, you know, it's interesting because. People talk about passions and it doesn't exist in your passion.[00:15:00]
So when people go looking for their purpose, they go looking in their passion first. Your passion does not, your purpose does not exist in your passion. Your your purpose exists in your pleasure. It's the thing that brings you joy. Your, your, your passion exists in your pleasure, rather, your purpose exists in your.
That's why people don't go there. They don't really look at it. They don't dig into what will that really take when you look into that place, um, in the worlds of words of Carl Jung, when you look into that dark place in the words of Joseph Campbell, when you enter into the cave that you are afraid to enter into, that is where you will find the treasure you've been most looking for.
And it is, it is transformational, it is actualizing, but it is incredibly courageous. And there is a point, and this is, this is what I want people to just grasp for a moment, just, I want you to just breathe and hear me for a moment. And I'm going to ask you the question, Corey, if I may. Sure. And that is this.
What is a [00:16:00] butterfly before it's a butterfly?
Corey Kupfer: I mean, the, the default answer would be a caterpillar, right?
Dov Baron: That's the default answer. That's right. Yeah. And that is the default answer that most people give, but it's actually not real, right? You see, there's a stage between caterpillar and butterfly, where, as you know, it sits in a pod.
And if you were to open it up, what you would find is not a caterpillar. Yes. And you would not find a butterfly. What you would find is soup. You would find this mushy soupy thing. And this is the most difficult part of this journey. Because if somebody has an identity and they become incredibly successful, they're able to move forward and take action and it's fantastic.
And then they say, okay, well I want to, I want to find my soul and I want to, I want to transform into being this purpose focused individual and living my soul's purpose. Okay, well that's going from caterpillar, even though you may have been the king of the caterpillars, to becoming a butterfly. Okay, well there's this middle stage [00:17:00] and it's soup.
And you won't know how to cope with that because you won't be able to do much. Yes. Feel like, oh my goodness, you know, I'm frustrated. I've got a very high level leader I'm working with right now for one of the big four. I need, you know, and he's like, I just don't know what to do. And I said, that's the answer.
There's nothing to do. You have to be with this. And he says, it's more painful not to do anything. Correct. It is more painful. But it is also transformational. But we in our world, the world we live in where we are very highly successful and driven, we're always doing. But we're rarely being. And it takes a while to sit in it.
And be with it, whatever it is. Because that's where the transformation takes place. That's where you can actually take flight from.
Corey Kupfer: Yeah. I love that. And listen, we've had, you know, uh, separate conversations where you know that you and I are so aligned on this conversation [00:18:00] and it's exciting to me. So let's bring it, you know, it's interesting, right?
Because you know, this is a deals podcast. So we want to bring, uh, some of this conversation over there and, and hear about some of the deals that you've done, some of the deals you've advised on, but let me segue it, uh, you know, with it in. In what you just said, because, you know, one of the things like anything we do and, you know, in our lives, whether it's in business or otherwise, is driven by something.
And very often deals are driven not from the place you just talked about. Right. But from some external pressure or ego based desire to be bigger or grow or be seen as something or, and, you know, inevitably, um, you know, those deals are, you know, uh, have a, let's, uh, a much less successful or certainly have a much lower chance of being successful.
I mean, sometimes people are originally driven from that place and then in the, you know, um, Evolution of, of the deal and the relationship, they, they grow and they can figure it out [00:19:00] and it comes to a better place. But for the most part, you know, if, if you're not driven from the right place, then the, you know, the result, the outcome that comes out of it, it's not going to be good.
So, um, you know, maybe that's a segue point in saying, uh, you know, uh, you know, the why question, for example, I just did this. I had a whiteboarding session just yesterday, uh, with a client and, uh, you know, they wanted to talk to me about structuring deals for growth. And most lawyers would come in and start talking about different structures.
I said, I said to them, well, hang on, we're going to take a step back. Why do you want to do deals? Why do you want to grow? Okay. And you know, and I have this whole process. I won't get into it, but you know, it's, it's, it's a why. And then if you figure out your why, then you can figure out who you target. And then you can figure out the value proposition to those people.
Then you can create a model and then you can finally get to a deal structure. Right. Um, so, you know, there are five steps before the deal structure in the way I work, because I always start with why as well. So in any case with, with, uh, you know, with that premise, [00:20:00] let me just open up the floor to your dove and, um, you know, just take it wherever you want in terms of, uh, the work you do and any of this conversation and how it relates to deals.
Dov Baron: You know, I think you've just outlined it very well there because one of my first questions to people is why do you want to do the deal and and by the way, if if I get to you want to do the deal for your ego. I'm okay with that. Just don't deny it. Right? Right. So let's get clear here. So I'll give you an example.
Um, that and I'll try not to use a name. Um, but I may give away the Give away what I'm talking about. A very good friend of mine is a lawyer and was a, uh, is a lawyer in Europe and was a lawyer in Israel when a big business person from the U S came over there, wanted to build a tower and, um, was negotiating to do this tower and try to create the deal.
Corey Kupfer: Yes.
Dov Baron: Of course, I'm not giving any names right here. [00:21:00] Right. And I said, well, what was it like dealing with this individual? Because, you know, the individual has a bit of a rep. And my friend said, it was brutal. This person is ruthless, has to win, doesn't care. about anybody or anything in the negotiation for the deal is not interested in anything but winning.
And I had described this person as having what is also known psychologically, because that's my background, what is known as a winner hero complex. Winner hero complex is, I will save you. I'm the only one who could save you. What matters most to that person is winning. And actually they don't care about the prize.
They just care about being able to claim it. They won. So I said, so I really am fascinated what it was like. And he said, that's exactly what it was about. He wouldn't let anybody else negotiate. He had to win. But when he won, he said, I've never seen anybody [00:22:00] more happy. And he wanted to hug people, the people who he had eviscerated, rudely, cruelly, he wanted to hug because the only thing that mattered was winning.
If that's what drives you. You know, so if that's your ego, that's fine. Okay, cool. I'm not gonna be doing business with you, but I understand that that's what drives you. And you've got to come to terms with what it is you're driven by, because a lot of time we don't want to admit that these are the things that drive us.
And, and admitting it allows us to have a lot more strength in just going, okay, this is what it is for me. So for me, every negotiation that I am doing, me, Dov, every negotiation I'm doing, it's to my detriment, and I understand that, that I always want to serve the soul of both sides. What is the highest possible outcome for both sides?
I, so [00:23:00] therefore, for me to do the deal with you, I want to know what's in it for you beyond the money. What's in it for you that is going to make you feel like a better human being, going to allow you to do something greater in your life that will enrich you? When I do that, if the person doing the deal never feels like they lost, they always feel like this was an agreed upon thing that brought us together for a higher purpose.
That driver is within me and that's what I think it's really important for us to to get focused in on is how can I bring this together? And make it not about winning where the context is win and lose, but it is about win, win, win. I win, you win, we win. And the only way for that for me is, is by asking deep soulful questions.
Corey Kupfer: Let's take a break from the show for a minute so I can tell you about an incredible resource my team and I have put [00:24:00] together for you. Secrets of deal driven growth, creative ways to grow your business, even in challenging times. There's a powerful ebook that helps you take deal quest podcast. Episodes and apply them to your own life and business.
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Now back for the show. So are there any, I mean, you mentioned one already with an unnamed individual, but, uh, any examples that you can think of and things you've been involved in where, uh, you know, you've gone down that road, you know, successfully in terms of, uh, you know, figuring out what that deeper, Desire is Boris.
I'm out.
Dov Baron: Thank you for asking. Yes. Um, there's been, of [00:25:00] course, there's been many in different forms. Um, but I'll give you an example of those, um, uh, give you this very simple example first, which is that when I've been in business in three continents, I'm one of my businesses in Australia, um, that I was in for about eight years.
When I decided that I was done and I needed to move on. Um, Um, we started a negotiation and what I realized was that this person loved the business we were in, and it looked like we would have to sell if I was going to walk away, and I simply gave him the business. I just said, it's, I'm done. And he said, but you know, even if you come in one day a week.
You know, you'll still be the part of the world. And I said, no, I can't do this anymore. I understand. It's not a bad business. It's just not good for me. Uh, I I'm out, but the negotiation [00:26:00] is off and he's like, Oh, you know, and, and I'm, you know, I can be a powerful, empowering person and he, you know, and he thought I was going to come at him.
And I said, no, no, it's yours. I'm signing the whole thing over to you. And that wasn't really an act of me being incredibly generous. It was an act of actually. centered self, not self centered. If I was going to come to my center, I was going to come to my core. Was I in integrity with that to continue this negotiation?
And for me, the answer was no. So I had to walk away. And it's the integrity with my soul that is always the higher question. In a, in a car, in a, uh, a company we worked with, they were also doing a deal there in the health technology, uh, business. We went in, we built the purpose of that organization and we helped to develop the culture of that organization.
And then they went into. some legal litigation that was not their fault, but [00:27:00] it had a massive impact on the, uh, on the stock values, of course, as you can imagine. And when you start getting people who come at you with all kinds of false litigations, each of those impact the stock values. And I sat with the CEO and I was fascinated because he was the founder as well.
And while everybody was frustrated and everybody was upset, he was of course upset, but he was no frustration. What he said was that what they had done, the health technology they'd developed, was there to save lives. And that he was going to stay calm and negotiate his way through this based on the fact that they were saving lives.
That's what mattered more than the stock value, which had plummeted. And he said, and I realize the board can remove me now because of this. very much. But they will never find anybody who will believe in the [00:28:00] impact we can have more than I can. And he says, and I'm willing to walk away if it's about profit instead of about Saving lives.
I just love that. That's such a level of integrity. And I know that that's the, when you talk about doing deals authentically, I mean, that's the depth of what you're talking about is, again, as you said, it's one of the reasons you and I got along so well.
Corey Kupfer: Yeah, those are, I love both of those examples. Uh, you know, and, uh, and, and let's go back to your first example when it was you, right?
Well, um, what I would love to, because I think there are people who, um, maybe have a desire, uh, you know, to be, uh, be able to be in that position where they would hand over, you know, when they would tap into their truth and hand over the, a company to a partner. Yep. But, but frankly, it's, you know, listen, it's, it's not easy to do right.
And, and our, and our society does not. Uh, encourage us to, uh, get, you know, get to that truth and, you know, and, and there's a million of things that would be running through most people's minds. Well, this [00:29:00] company has, has value. Of course I out build it. Why? You know, I'm gonna leave money on the table. I'm gonna, why would I do that?
All right. Whatever may come up first. Yeah. So I, what I would love is do if you would be willing to share some of, uh, like what are some of the practical practices that you do, you know, whether it's on a day-to-day basis or in that particular scenario to be able to access. you know, your truth and to be willing to act from it, uh, as opposed to all that chatter, you know, some people call them monkeys in our, in our head and other people's judgments and all that other stuff.
Dov Baron: And again, it's a great question. Um, and I don't expect people to be able to do it. Um, first and foremost, I mean, no disrespect to anybody, but the bottom line is you're not a leader unless you can lead yourself. And you can't lead yourself without self knowledge. Hence, self. Self knowledge. Lead yourself, self knowledge.
What is self knowledge? Self knowledge is not a weekend at a Tony Robbins workshop. [00:30:00] Self knowledge is not even five years of therapy. Self knowledge is an ongoing process. Yes, of course, go to Tony Robbins if you want. Go to five years of therapy, get a great coach. I encourage you to do all of those things.
But self knowledge is an ongoing journey. And we live in a goal driven society. So the first question people ask is, well, how long will this take? uh, the rest of your life. That's the answer. The rest of your life. Absolutely. And you can look at that as, oh my god, the rest of my life. Or you can look at that as, this is my journey now.
This is what I do. You know, if somebody, um, I have a, uh, a friend who was diagnosed seven years ago with, uh, an incurable disease. Okay. He got the incurable disease and he got a diet that he had to follow in order to stay alive. He doesn't go, when's it over? He says, I want to be alive. This is my [00:31:00] life. Okay, right.
And, and this is, this is the challenge that people have. We're looking at things as outcomes instead of looking at things as lives. So what is my life? How do I want to live? And you can't do that without self knowledge. So let's track back a little bit further and say, okay. So now we've got it. All right.
This is the lifestyle self knowledge. Where do I start? Here's the, here's where you start. And we're really going to give you this. And, and I advise you, I challenge you to take this into every negotiation, take this into every deal, but take it into yourself. And here's the question. What do I believe about this?
Whatever it is, right? So can you give me something, Corey? What do I believe about how successful I'll be. Right. Okay. So what do I believe about as successful as I'll be? So you're gonna ask that question, you write down the answer and then you, once you, whatever the answer is, you write it and you write as long or as short as you like.
And then you say, what if that's a [00:32:00] lie? You just ask, what if that's a lie? Well, no, it's not. Okay. But what if it is? And the reason you're asking is what if it's a lie is this one reason only, and I want you to get this all beliefs. Are you ready? Are you writing this down? All beliefs are lies. You go, well that's not true.
Of course it is. And I'll tell you why. Because a truth is universally true. It is true without exception. And every belief you have, you either made up, or somebody else made it up, and you adopted it in order to get along with them, or to get along in this society, yeah. So people say, well, you know, it's, no, okay, I say, okay, give me one.
They go, okay, here's one, gravity. I go, okay, is that true? They go, yeah. I go, no, it's not universally true. They go, of course it is. No, it's not. So I say, okay, so if we leave the atmosphere of the planet Earth. Is there, is there gravity to go, oh yeah, I guess you're right, there's not. [00:33:00] No, no, there actually is!
It's just not the same level of gravity. So it's still there. So gravity is a truth in the fact that it is universal, but how it applies is different. So it's not universally true in the same context that we understand it, just as you would say, well, is it true that it's bad to kill somebody? And the answer would generally be yes.
Well, what if somebody is trying to kill you? kill your child, and you have a blunt object nearby, and you walk in on them, and you kill them because you're defending your child. Is that bad? No. Okay. So there's a context to truth as well. So what I'm asking you to do is, in that deep philosophical understanding of yourself, is to challenge these, these ideas you have, these beliefs you have.
I'm getting ripped off is one of the most common beliefs where somebody's doing a deal. If I do this, I'm getting ripped off. How do you know? How do you [00:34:00] know? Because here's the thing. And you and I've talked about this, Corey. In 1990, I fell off a mountain. I fell 120 feet, 12 stories while free climbing and got smashed to pieces.
Was that a bad thing? Absolutely. Now looking at it, looking back. Was that a bad thing? No, that was the best thing that happened to me up until that moment. There is context. So when you say, I'm getting ripped off, you might be looking back at that event five years later and going, thank God that happened because I got out of that.
And if it hadn't have been painful, remember purpose is found in pain, if it hadn't have been painful, I probably would have never found my purpose.
Corey Kupfer: Love it. I, you know, I'm just, you know, it's funny, I'm, I'm sitting with this because it's, uh, listeners, I hope, I hope you're really listening to this and I, you know, I don't want to be, you know, uh, this is a conversation I've been in for decades, uh, and, and it is a lifetime journey.
And, [00:35:00] um, And, you know, I, I totally agree with Dov. I think, you know, as, as humans, we're meaning making machines, right? We make everything mean something. It's all made. It's all made up. And, and by the way, you know, the, the, uh, just the context that I love. There's nothing wrong. I mean, we, you know, that's what we do.
We make stuff up, but we need to make stuff up actually to live and be forward. Right. So for me, I don't live in a belief being right or wrong. I actually live in a belief being either empowering or disempowering. If I'm going to make up beliefs, let me make up ones that are empowering to me and moving forward, as opposed to ones that are disempowering.
So if you don't think, talking about this in negotiation, you know, if you say to yourself, you're not worth that, that's a made up belief. You can easily make up a belief that you're worth way, you know, that you're well worth every penny of whatever you charge, right? I want to charge. Um, so. So, you know, that's sort of, you know, related to what Dov was talking about.
And it [00:36:00] does come into, you know, into deals. Because, you know, one of the things I talk about in negotiations, if you go into a negotiation on a deal or any kind of negotiation from a place of scarcity, or fear, or upset, or anger, or ego, or any of these limiting beliefs, that's going to affect you more than any tactic you put on top of that.
So, this conversation of, You know, uh, I love the question of asking, you know, what if that were not true? What if that were a lie, right? You know, that's, that's a huge tool.
Dov Baron: Yeah. And I think you've, you've just said something there that I think is important. And I want to make sure we don't go off, off the rails for people with this, uh, because people, you know, naturally will interpret what we're saying.
That's the nature of humans too. So, you know, like Corey said, you can go into negotiation going, uh, I'm not really worth this and like Corey said, you could just as easily go in with. I'm really worth this. But here's the thing. A lot of the work that I do is leadership consulting with, as I said, with companies around cultures and all this.
And I remember going in, I'll give you an [00:37:00] example. It was a client I was working with privately who invited me to come and do some work with his company. And it was a particular thing around Finding their vision for five years. I was like, okay, cool. And he's, you know, he was talking about, he had been doing it, was fumbling through it and I said, well, you do know I can do that much better than you.
Right. And he said, yeah, okay, let's bring you in. What will you charge me? I told him and he said, okay. And I went into his office, this is like a week before. And he said, yeah, I was talking to this other person and they said that they could do that for, for about three grand less than you. And I just looked at him and I said, uh, can I ask you a question, Frank?
And he said, sure. I said, how many people in this city do what you do? He goes, oh, there are about five firms. I go, then why would I do business with you? Because I know you're more expensive than them. And he goes, oh, because we do this and this and we come from this place and that place. And I said, good.
So even though they look the [00:38:00] same, would you say they're different? And he said, Oh, absolutely. And I go, good, don't ever challenge my feet again. And he goes, what do you mean? I said, no one does what I do. I'm the only one in the world that does what I do. And here's the thing. I own my value, but this is the piece I want everybody to get.
I can back it up. Yes. So don't go in there with some idea that, well, I'm worth this and I can just own this belief. No, no, you're going to be able to back it up. And I, and people say, well, you know, I don't have 20 years of experience. It's not that I had a conversation this morning with a guy who was 25 years old, outstanding young man, 25 years old.
has a global company, global, has the largest millennial platform in the world, has been recognized by the UN, by the White House, is 25 years old, and he's been running the company for 11 [00:39:00] years. It's not about, it's not about age, it's about, am I willing to show up and be better? Because like I told you about self knowledge, it's the same with all development.
There is no there, and the value is for me, I own my value because I know I'm not done. I'm the best in the world at what I do. Why? Because I haven't stopped learning.
Corey Kupfer: I love it. So Doug, before I, I mean, listen, we could talk forever, but obviously you, you full well know having, you know, a top podcast in the world that, you know, there's a, there's a time that we need to close these things.
So before I give you an opportunity to let people know where to contact you and ask you the last question. That'd be great. Uh, I want to just, is there anything else particular to deals that you think, uh, if your experience, you know, would be valuable to our audience, any last, uh, sort of tips or thoughts, uh, that you might want to bring?
Dov Baron: Well, I mean, I can talk about the obvious things like, you know, [00:40:00] looking at how they can win as well as you getting out of the, getting out of the win, lose mentality, uh, which we've talked about and those things are important, but as. A deeper question is really what I want to challenge you to do in a deal.
Ask a deeper question. And so when you go into a deal, maybe ask this question, how can you, as in the person on the other side of the table, how can you win if this isn't about money? Ask yourself that question. But like, if you're leaning over the table about to do the, or looking to do the deal, say, how would this look like a win for you if it wasn't about the money?
That brings somebody to something deeper, something more meaningful, something more soulful for them. And then you look at, okay, how can I facilitate that? How can we facilitate that? Because then that person then is going to come to that [00:41:00] deal, whatever the finances are of it, from a whole different place.
They're not looking at you as this ruthless rat who's trying to steal from them. They're looking at you as somebody who actually cares. Because, listen, the number one thing is, I know this, you know this, we've all had this experience. I've had people in front of me who've offered me something that is identical on two sides.
One person's offering it, another person's offering it. One person out of the two of offering identical things is offering it cheaper. But I have a relationship with the other person. I care about them and I know they care about me. I don't mind spending the extra money. So ask a more soulful question, how can this be about a win for you beyond the money, not, not without the money, beyond the money, and then they go, Oh, okay, so I'm still getting the money.
Oh, yeah, he's still getting the money.
Corey Kupfer: But now what? Great stuff. Um, wow. All right. So before I ask the last question, I know people have gotten huge value from this stuff. [00:42:00] So if they want to reach out to you and, uh, whether it's having you coming to speak in their organization or, you know, to consult and coach with you as a, uh, what's the best place for them to find out more about you?
So thank
Dov Baron: you for asking, Corey. I sincerely appreciate it. My main website is FullMonteLeadership. com and there you can find access to over 700 articles, over 700 videos, um, my podcast, as Corey mentioned, and, uh, all of the, there's a ton of resources right there, including eBooks and my books, and there's 12 books and all kinds of great stuff that's right there for you, tons about you.
However, Having said that, here's what I'm going to say. If you want to reach out to me directly, I'm going to give you my private email. I know I'm crazy. My private email is dov at d o v b a r o n. If I [00:43:00] can help you, if I can assist you in some way, reach out to me, even if you just want to just initially, I'm not asking you to make any big commitments.
I'm just asking, you know, if I can help you at this point. Go ahead, do that. And here's what I want you to do as well. When you reach out to me, Dov, D O V, at D O V B A R O N, so dov, at dovbarron. com, I want you to cc Corey. Because I do a podcast, Corey's doing a podcast, he spends the time to find great guests for you, to bring you a ton of value.
And it's a pretty much one way street. You just get to be passive on the other side. I want you to stop being passive. The world doesn't work passively. We live in a symbiotic relationship with each other. So what I'm asking you to do is to go and rate, review, and subscribe to. Corey's podcast. I want you to share it with with your friends.
And I want you to write to Corey and write to me and tell us what you got out of this show. And more [00:44:00] importantly, what you're going to do with this that I've shared with you. And if there's something I can help you with, you can do you can let me know that too. But please honor and respect the value that Corey's bringing you.
So go rate, review, and subscribe to the show and write to us and tell us what you're going to do with it. Well, I just, I gotta like
Corey Kupfer: replay it at the end of every episode I do with anybody. You can do that. You have my permission. I appreciate that, Doug. So, I'm kind of laughing at my, you know, so, you know, this podcast is unscripted.
I, I, the only thing is That's scripted to me as I, the first two questions I ask in the last question, I asked her over the always the same. And then in between we go wherever we go, I'm sort of laughing about my standard, the last question, especially when it comes to you. Um, uh, and you'll understand why when I ask it and you may be aware if you listen to the other episodes, but so my last question is always talking about how authenticity is my highest value and what that means to me.
And you and I have had those discussions. So I don't need to give any more detail on that. And then I asked my guests what authenticity [00:45:00] means to them and how they have it, you know, applied to their business, their deals in their life. Well, you know, you live that conversation. So I'm going to ask you the question anyway, but I'm kind of laughing that that's my question when it comes to you.
Dov Baron: Well, I actually, you know what, Corey, I actually really appreciate that question because I, you know, you and I talked about this when you were on my show, I think authenticity is grossly misunderstood. It's a word that is now bantered around. I actually have removed it mostly from my lexicon because it's just thrown around and what people think authenticity is and what it is, is vastly different.
So I'm going to give you my definition. Very simple. Authenticity is depth. It's depth. If you have an authentic relationship with somebody, there is depth to that relationship. If you don't have depth in the relationship, the relationship doesn't feel authentic. Check. What is debt? It is reciprocal vulnerability.
That's what it is for me.
Corey Kupfer: [00:46:00] Love that. Love that. Dov, thank you so much for being a guest on the show.
Dov Baron: My absolute pleasure, Corey. Thank you so much for having me on. It was an honor.
Corey Kupfer: Thank you for joining me on this episode of DealQuest, where we help you understand how deal driven growth can be your ticket to freedom.
I want to invite you to a unique place. The Deal Den is a place where entrepreneurs, high level executives, and business leaders come together, support each other's growth and success, and share what's working best, as well as what challenges we are facing right now. You will get input not only from me, but from all of our members.
We collaborate and serve each other. To join us, go to CoreyKupfer. com slash Deal Den. I'll see you there. I'm Corey Kupfer. Until next week, wishing you the free Freedom and financial prosperity that I know your DealQuest will bring.
