Episode 3 - Influencer and Sponsorship Deals, with Ramon Ray - FINAL REMASTER
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Corey Kupfer: [00:00:00] Do you want your business to grow faster? Are you open to new and out of the box ways to drive revenues and increase value? How do you imagine the most successful entrepreneurs and business leaders double, triple, or expand their businesses tenfold or more? This is a weekly podcast featuring conversations with business owners, executives, and leaders as we reveal behind the scenes details that give you, our listeners, the confidence to pursue your own deal driven growth.
On the show, we discuss a huge variety of deals, everything from large Complex mergers and acquisitions, capital raising, joint ventures, strategic alliances, real estate, affiliate and sponsorship deals, and more, including smaller deals that you can do without significant capital. My name is Corey Kupfer, and I've been supporting deal driven growth for businesses for over 35 years as a successful entrepreneur, professional negotiator, and attorney.
My goal is to help you strategize, plan for, find, and complete deals that will help your company grow [00:01:00] faster. Welcome to the DealQuest podcast. Let's get started. DealQuest community, I'm so excited to introduce you to a remastered episode of the DealQuest podcast. So, , the podcast has grown so much.
We started it about five years ago now, at least at the point I'm recording this. And, we, in the beginning, had, , maybe 60 or 80 listeners per episode. We now have many multiples of that. In fact, we've got, , about a hundred, almost a hundred times that, And I realized that there were so many great interviews I did early on in the podcast.
In fact, in the first year of the podcast, it wasn't even called a deal quest. It was called fueling deals until we rebranded it. And we interviewed some amazing, amazing entrepreneurs and deal makers and, , just amazing stories, amazing content. And I know that so many of our listeners have joined us over the last several years and may not have heard some of those earlier episodes from five years ago, four years ago, even three years ago.
So we have picked the best [00:02:00] of the best of those old episodes and , the advice and the stories and the experiences are timeless. So we've remastered them, , we've made sure the audio is great, and put in our new, intro and outro, that kind of stuff, and we're gonna be re releasing some of these amazing, amazing episodes, so look out for them from time to time, and here's one coming up right now.
Today my guest is Ramon Ray. Ramon loves burnt
pancakes, bacon, and eggs. I love that first line from his bio.
He is also a four time entrepreneur, best selling author, global speaker, and event producer. Ramon has sold one of the companies he's founded. He's got three books out, one of which was the best seller.
He's got a fourth one coming out, which is going to be called Celebrity CEO. He's the founder of small business technology, smallbiztechnology. com, at Smart Hustle Magazine, two leading resources for all things, small business, startup and growth. And this guy, you got to look at his whole bio on the show notes.
I can't read it all here, but I mean, he's been an expert witness in Congress, he's [00:03:00] spoken at the White House he's got, you name it, this guy has done it, he's been all over the place and I gotta tell you something I cannot be more excited, to have Ramon Ray on the show, and if anybody's ever, seen him speak, watched him, met him, watched any of his content online, You couldn't, can't help to be, anything but excited as well because he brings such energy to everything he does.
Ramon, welcome to the show.
Ramon Ray: Corey, you have me excited just to hear myself maybe, by excitement you have. So Corey, thank you. And you definitely are the leading deal maker. So thank you for having me, Corey. Really excited to share with your audience and help. Listen, we help each other. So I'm excited to help your community as well.
Thank you so much.
Corey Kupfer: Absolutely. So listen, before we get into what you're doing now, the deals you've done and then a particular expertise and superpower you have in a particular type of deal that I want to focus on, I want to take you back when you were a little kid, what did you want to be?
Because my guess is, I don't know, maybe it was a speaker, an authority, an expert, but, I have a feeling maybe not.
Ramon Ray: Corey, what I wanted to do when I was a [00:04:00] kid, and I remember clearly, , we don't remember everything about childhood necessarily, but I remember a visual image. And I'm going to tell you, I still want to do that, or the industry today, I still want to do it, Corey, but due to age and other things, and you'll understand what I mean in a minute, I can't and I'm not.
But Corey, my wish back then was to be a member of the Federal Bureau of Investigation. I remember when I was, that's FBI, when I was about 10 years old, Corey, nine years old, I remember I wrote a letter, letter, no email, to the FBI field office in this Midwest state I was born. And, they sent me back the application forms and I tried to do the push ups and all that.
And I remember it, Corey. Today, I want to be a little bit of a secret service or the president's counter assault team, secret service. But anyways, you didn't ask for all that, but that's what I wanted to do.
Corey Kupfer: I love it. I love it. I love it. And what was your first real business, however you define that?
Ramon Ray: Yeah, first real business, that I can remember, and it was when I was 16, 17. So I've always been, , hustler as it were and doing fun stuff as a kid, but I [00:05:00] think really came to age when I was, I work for a grocery company, grocery store, and I was a dock boy, so I was on cashier duty, and I was, I guess I didn't know I was going to be a speaker then, talking so much, I let the lady go with about 40 worth of groceries, without her paying, because I was so excited to be a cashier, and that was, I think, one of my first jobs,
being a cashier.
Corey Kupfer: I love it, I love it. So, alright just give us a couple, I mean, you have so much going on, , you've got the books, you've got The conferences you run, you've got, , your businesses. Just give us a, , just a couple of minutes on, on, on what you're doing now and who you serve and, , so people get to know you a little bit.
Ramon Ray: Yeah, and thank you for giving me the opportunity, Corey, because many people don't understand. It's not like I'm saying I'm a attorney or an accountant. People kind of get that, even though you can do a lot of things. But in essence, Corey, and you can help me say this better, maybe, , you help me get my bitch.
But the, all the stuff that I'm doing, as , Corey, is in the content world, educating people. So books, conferences, online, Twitter, waking up at three in the morning and swiping sleep out of my eyes and doing a Twitter chat, whatever. It's [00:06:00] all content. And most of that is free. It's all content.
And I work with large brands in the influencer marketing space, as it were, who want to reach that audience, and or use Ramon to show their authenticity or, their credibility. So that's the world I'm in. Producing all this content to build a fan base, build a community. Harkening back to kind of what Seth Godin talks about.
And I monetize that in a very genuine way. I think you'll attest to that by working with some of the leading brands, all the products that we small businesses use their stuff. And they said, Ramon, can you do a Twitter chat with us? Can you come and speak? Can you host an event? That's the world I'm in.
Corey Kupfer: So this is great.
And that's what I , you've sold a business. In the past, we may have time to get into that, but one of the things that, I talk about on this podcast and is the whole setup of the podcast is that there are so many different types of deals that entrepreneurs and, and larger companies can do.
And a lot of people, when they think about deals, all they think about is M& A. All they think about is mergers and acquisitions. And , I preach that, yeah, boy, there's joint ventures and strategic alliances and [00:07:00] licensing deals and sponsorship deals and affiliate deals. And, , my goal, and one of the things I love about having you on the, on the show now.
Is although we could talk about, , the company that you sold, there are plenty of people who can talk about that, but, what you do in terms of the deals that you alluded to with brands and how you do those deals and the concept of getting, , sponsors for events, being an influencer, , I don't know if you have any kind of affiliate relationships with anybody, but that's a world that I think a lot of people don't understand.
And, certainly, , and it's funny, I mean, people in general, entrepreneurs in general, don't understand it. And even, , Ramon and I are both professional speaking members of the National Speakers Association. We travel in that great community, and there are a lot of really phenomenal speakers in there.
And even in, in our community, in our speakers community, Ramon, a lot of people don't understand the opportunities, , beyond just getting a check for them being on stage, for what they can do. So I'd really love to first delve into this whole area of these sponsorship deals, relationship deals, influencer deals, And tell us about, , how those work and how you've [00:08:00] leveraged that.
Ramon Ray: Absolutely. And Corey, I'll add a little bit, alluding to the point of ideals, just to put this as an underline. I'm the type of person, Corey, and again, , nice guys finish last, but that's what working with friends, , you have the deal making mind. So you could kind of slap me into shape. No, Ramon, we're going to stop.
We all have a way we can help each other. But the, but my world 20 years, it's really, I've been so blessed because I am more of a give first. And people say that, but meaning I do it to an uber extensive, so for example and help me get back on track here, Corey, even though I can, my brain can walk in 10 different directions.
But, I just want to mention one thing going back to the deal making. I'm the type of person, Corey, let's say Corey, he has a big, big, big audience. Ramon, I can't pay you to come and speak here and do this, could you come for free? Which we never say in public, but could you come for free? So, I'd rather do that.
So it can be the Ramon and Corey shoeshine business. Knowing that Corey's going to bring tons of people, and guess what I'm going to do? Sell the Wall Street Journal to all these big people getting their shoes shined. Does that make sense, kind of, how I live my world, Corey? It's [00:09:00] not necessarily I need Corey to give me a check to be in the shoeshine business, but I see something else that I can bring in that value.
Does that, before I get into what I do, does that kind of make sense how I live my world?
Corey Kupfer: Totally. So to put it in another way, just to help the listeners, I hear two things that you say, and you correct me if I'm wrong. I mean one is obviously clearly that give first mentality and you and I come from that same place and , it's sort of become cliche and people, , really don't.
And sometimes say it and don't live it, but I truly believe that. And I'll give an extension for that because for me, what comes after give first, there's a couple of things it's trust that you'll be taken care of and that it's not linear. So if I give to you, it doesn't mean I know it'll come back to me, but by the way, it may not come back to me directly from you.
It may come back to me. through the people that you've introduced me to, the people that put me in front of. It's like, , or, , somebody you mentioned to me, me too, who mentioned me to someone else, who then three years later gives me a call. It's not linear. And then the second piece I heard you say, which is also important as a [00:10:00] deal strategy and a business strategy, is, hey, I don't need to get paid necessarily all the time.
And listen, , there are times you do get paid in front, but I don't necessarily need all the time to get paid on the front end. Because I have a back end that of value that I can provide to people that I trust if I get in front of them enough, , enough of them will take advantage of it where, , I'll be able to get paid another way.
Ramon Ray: Exactly. And I think people forget, Corey, the aspect of the value also of just, credibility, , going back to Corey, what you're doing and deal making and things for your audience. This is another, maybe a silly example, but , there's a deal and a friend of yours hooks you up with and they're paying lower, not so much, but you realize you can say, Corey did a deal with Amazon or a big company.
That stuff, Corey, I do those kind of things, I'll put it on my website, so it builds my credibility, but I'll get back to me, but, , but those are the things I think that, to your point, deal making, yes, it's about money, getting a check, we all want to live, for sure, Corey and I are not saying that, you're going to get paid, but I think people, especially in my role, put it that way, that there's [00:11:00] many ways to make a deal and get a benefit, but That go around, come years later, and if you do that 20 times, let's say 30 times in a month, you just need three or four of those every month to live very well.
Corey Kupfer: That's right. And here's the interesting thing. I mean, that point you raised is actually, certainly not unrelated. In fact, it's totally related to the place we're about to go in terms of, , the kind of deals you do with sponsors and brands, because, , what you're also doing is you are providing value to the sponsors and brands, you're getting in front of them, you're building relationships, which actually is part of the way you set up the ability to do the kind of deals you do with them.
So let's talk about what those are.
Ramon Ray: Yeah. So let's, let's use an example. I won't mention brands. I could mention some, no, there's no confidentiality, but let's talk about a telecommunications company. Yeah. Being dollar telecommunication. This is a real example. One of my clients, you could help me unpack.
Tell me how deep or where you wanna go. So big telecommunications company, they have all the money in the world, Corey, to do whatever they want. They don't even know they, they can buy out Yankees stadium, rename it to their name, [00:12:00] right? They can do it
Corey Kupfer: super Bowl commercials, whatever they want to do.
Ramon Ray: Exactly. But of course they're growing and so they're looking for other new opportunities. So that's one tip, that's one thing to know. Two, remember there's different people in the company. that have different needs. So that budget may be for the big brand name, but then there's Javier. He's in charge of growing their, wireless business.
You know, he has a certain budget for his stuff. That's another thing to keep in mind. Big companies have different areas and slices of the business, which I can get into how I do that sometimes as well. Third thing is, so where I come into the influencer sponsorship marketing is that companies didn't say, okay, We need to build credibility.
We want authenticity. Who can we look out to to do this? Now this is why they made new deals with Serena Williams. She's a global, instantly name recognizable person. And most of your audience already gets that side of the world. We're gonna hire, I don't know, Michael Jacks always did, but whoever. Big star.
Where Ramon comes in, Ramon has a small audience. He's built [00:13:00] 20 years of credibility. He has a decent Twitter following. Okay. We don't have to pay him, 20 million or whatever. Beyonce or Serena gets, we can pay 30, 50, 000 bidding on the deal. And over time that still builds our credibility. Over time, we can use the content he's helping us create, and we can put that in a campaign.
And going back to our previous point, Corey, now Ramon's brand is even more, and Ramon's in a Super Bowl commercial. That hasn't happened yet. But in essence, Corey, that's the world I'm in. Building the goodwill, going to the example we used earlier, Corey got me in front of the Boy Scouts of America, or Girl Scouts.
Big brands saw that. Now they're paying Ramon, because they saw Ramon was with a nice brand. And furthermore, they want to work with Ramon for the credibility. That's the key, my part of my world. They need the credibility, the real story, and or authenticity. That's the world I'm in, working with these big brands.
And it's not in fairness, [00:14:00] Corey, the local guy who's, the local accountant. Small accounting firm, small law firm, they probably don't need Ramon. They need to do other things, they have a sales team. But as you get bigger and you have that discretionary budget, that's where I come in. Let me know if that made any sense at all.
Corey Kupfer: No that's totally great. And let's drill it, let's drill it down for the, so the audience really gets it and I'll put it in the most sort of coarse way, right? What do people write checks? for you to do. Yes, in that world. Love it.
Ramon Ray: Writing checks for me to speak, writing checks for me to host events.
And that's a growing part of my business, not about the technology marketing, just to host and add some energy, speak, host events, writing me to help them produce content, not because they can't, but they want Ramon's name attached to it. So those are three big drivers. I have the host events, speaking events, helping people produce content that's authentic, original, and it looks
Corey Kupfer: And then as inherent in all of those is that they know you have a following in an [00:15:00] audience and we get it.
It's not a Beyonce or Serena following, but it's more than, significantly more than the average person out there. And inherent in that is that you're going to be promoting your speaking, your content, your, , everything you're doing out to your audience as well. Correct?
Ramon Ray: Exactly, and that's the world of kind of that micro influencing, not quite like the Instagram people showing up putting on makeup, but on that side of the equation, you have a certain following, a certain reach, we'll want to use 50 of you to boost our product.
Corey Kupfer: And then the other thing that you do, right, is you run some conferences and, sometimes they will write checks to sponsor at your conference, is that right? Absolutely most of the time, Corey.
Ramon Ray: Maybe, you know, friend and family can get in there and I'll put Corey and Becky up to a fringe aside somewhere.
Right. Yeah, so I produce, for example, an annual event, Smart Hustle Small Business Conference. This year, if people are listening to this take on 20, this edition of 2019, big sponsors come. In the past, Dell, Microsoft, [00:16:00] Salesforce, a whole others. And, and that's another revenue stream where you bring people together, Corey.
And I think what's interesting about that is that the content marketing world, digital marketing, clearly there's money in there and I play in that. But it's ironic, Corey, I can get, maybe you have to squeeze and beg people for 5, for a Twitter chatter webinar, but companies will more faster, quicker, as it were, spend 75k, 50k, 25k on an in person, real life event, it's just The dynamics are interesting.
Corey Kupfer: Which is great, and I think sometimes, and correct me if I'm wrong, I mean, the fact that you do have that online following, the fact that you have maybe done some other, , some other relationship with them online, does sort of, , grease the skins or pave the way or whatever cliche you want to use, to them.
And then they say, oh, you also have a live event. Great. , we can do a bigger thing there, right?
Ramon Ray: Absolutely to the people listening and this is why this world of give first. It's not an Inauthentic thing, Corey and I and others, we have this in [00:17:00] our DNA. How can I help and serve? But if you want to speak crassly, you know about the money.
We're a very large brand, Corey, and you know this better than me. It's about risk, man. So Ramon go, let's take Corey. I'm going to use your name, Corey. Corey's in charge of the big billion dollar deal at some online e commerce. And Ramon flew on his own dime, went to Corey's event. And here's outta my playbook.
Corey Ramon's been live tweeting, Corey speaking, taking pictures of Corey, adding value all in my dime. Six months later when Ramon has an event, now Corey's seen Ram Con, Ramon Kado. Now Corey likes Ramon. They had a few laughs, a few talks. So this part of giving, yeah, it's authentic, but this goes back to, as you said, now Corey's going to say, Oh, Ramona, now I get what you can do.
Now I see the, what you did for me. Let's talk. And at least your foot's in the door, especially with these big brands. It's low risk, Corey. And then the bigger they are, they start to share you, say, Hey guys, I used Ramon for our event. He was great. It's like, ah, a sigh of relief, if Ramon [00:18:00] worked for Corey Company A, he can work for Becky Company A too, if that makes sense.
Corey Kupfer: Yeah, and it's, , what's great is I always, there's a lot of ways you can look at this, right? And you and I definitely come from, again, fresh from a service mentality, right? Be of service. But if we want to, again, like put this in the way that, that sells, , people might think about it, whatever, , it's a modern version of a loss leader, and, right, in retail and, in other businesses and, , if your sales terms, whatever, there's this concept of a loss leader where, you sell something at below, , maybe even give someone away free, but certainly, you know, the classic is you sell something at below your cost where you lose money on it.
The old, old, ancient example was that you sell the typewriter below cost, and you make money, and you make money off the ribbons, because they need ribbons. But those of you, but those of you, by the way, who are not as old as I am, okay, there used to be something called a typewriter. There wasn't, there were no computers, and there was literally a ribbon that would print the, onto the paper.
So, getting aside, you know, the ribbon was the thing that people would need to buy constantly forever, as long as they had the [00:19:00] typewriter. So, so it's in the authority marketing world in the online world in the influencer world, you know I know again. This is not it's not like ramones sitting around and saying hey I'm going to, like the first place he comes from is, Hey, I'm going to have this loss leader strategy.
It comes from, this service is natural to him, but it is a lot. It's essentially a loss leader strategy. You're going to give people something for free or low cost to get them to know you, get them to love you, get them to know how great you are. And then you have the ability to, in sales terms, upsell them in the back end.
In, in, in the way I think Ramon and I like to think about it more is that we get to provide more value for them, on the back end because now they trust and know us.
Ramon Ray: Corey, absolutely. And hey, if you want to make up a scenario, we can prove it works. Once you have your call in show, people can, well, what about this business?
Listen, this works all shapes, sizes. It works all day long. And I, you know, any professional services, loss leader. And as Corey said, be careful, those who are listening. You don't really want to quite say, guys, let's get together. What's our loss leader strategy? It could, especially if you're a bigger company and that could work.[00:20:00]
But if you train your team. Let's do value first and especially Corey. It works great once it's the right target and fairness out of 10 people. Corey, let's say half of them say Ramon, can you fly to our event? It's not a fit. Not my market. I have nothing to do with me. It's the, national whatever association, nothing to do with me.
I may have a phone call or do what I can to be pleasant, but especially Corey, it's in my target market. And I know they paid somebody else to do this all day long. I'm happy to serve and it's not a wink wink, but to your point, talking business, it's very synergistic. And also, even if they don't buy from me, let's not forget what Corey said earlier in the conversation.
They now can say we work with Ramon. They don't have to say they didn't pay me. We like him. It works. So there's many ways going back to deal making, which Corey shows about, many ways to strike these deals and make things happen.
Corey Kupfer: Yeah. And, I guess the question that comes to my mind and I don't, obviously you're not in the psychology or whatever of other people, but [00:21:00] answer to the extent you can.
This can be such a lucrative business and it's, you know, obviously somebody like you, it totally lies with who you are. It's natural for you. And so that may make you, you know, there's this concept of being an unconscious competent, where you're just really drawn and good about something and you don't really know how you do it so well.
But I guess my question to you is, like, Why does so few people, I mean, certainly listen to the Instagram world now influences becoming, but in terms of the entrepreneurial world, so few people truly take advantage of this type of deal of this type of strategy. Do you have any thoughts on why a lot of people, why it's underutilized or do you agree with me?
That's underutilized. Maybe disagree.
Ramon Ray: I do, I mean, I think, I do agree, and I think the reason, Corey, and it depends on the industry, of course, but I think, one, people are very short sighted, that's one. Two, they're not focused on the long game. Three, and in fairness, now I talk to very small businesses at times, and in fairness, if you need to pay rent, get a dollar for your kid's diaper.
Forget what Corey and I are saying. Go over, go get that money [00:22:00] today, right now. I did it. Yeah. For most of your audience, I would hope, thriving, growing business has been blessed. Things are on another level. You've been in business for two, three, four, five years, and I don't know, I'm making it up, Corey.
That's where I would hope you have the bandwidth. And you can think long term, build your funnel, build the funnel, build the brand equity, build the quote unquote, good karma. That's the long term. And as you do that more and more, listen, 2020, the end of 2019, it can't help but be a better year because you've done all those, your brand's building builds.
You're building your sales funnel. People are talking good about you. Hey seo is out there If you want to do it even online, there's so many ways you're in venice your face is out there There are so many boxes I can check for this aspect of cautiously and prudently giving giving giving So many boxes.
Corey Kupfer: Let's take a break from the show for a minute so I can tell you about an incredible resource my team and I have put together for you. Secrets of [00:23:00] deal driven growth, creative ways to grow your business even in challenging times. There's a powerful ebook that helps you take DealQuest podcast episodes and apply them to your own life and business.
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Now back for the show. Ramon, you've had so many successful deals in this area and strategies, and, but, For most of us and you, there, no matter how great we are at something, there are lessons we've learned, things we do differently, mistakes we've made in the past. Are there any learning lessons, in these types of deals that you've done where you sort of learned, hey, maybe I should do that differently, or you had, some mistake or failure that, was the teaching moment?
Ramon Ray: Yeah, absolutely. I think one thing I think is for sure is be careful where it comes to the [00:24:00] aspect of, investing too much in it. That's one thing I can think of for sure. Meaning, you know what, Ramon and Corey say, you know, get from abundance. Okay, I'm going to fly there for a thousand dollars. They said, come to their Hawaiian conference.
I'm going to spend another 10, 000. So that's where you want to be careful. If you're really spending money to do something in the hopes. Two. You want to be careful you're not taken advantage of. That's something that can't happen. You want to be careful that, you're not being what is it, mooch?
I think it's the word, mooch daughter or something like that. So, it hasn't happened too much to me, Corey, but I think that's, and the third thing I think is that if you're giving from genuine abundance or let's call it, Corey, should we make another word, corporate abundance? Meaning of course you hope to get something some way.
If that's the case, don't be upset and angry. Oh man, Corey gave somebody else the deal. Even in that, Corey, I'm so authentic about it, I don't mind. I'll get, you know, so let me stop there. But that, those are the three things that I think, so yes, I've been burned. And I think the way not to do it is just to [00:25:00] do it a little thoughtfully and strategically.
For example, many people, I'm sure, knew Corey. Let's have a lunch, dinner, meet up with me. Phone calls, Corey, 15 minutes, 20 minutes. I'll do all day long. And I may have to schedule it out to April or May. But I can limit how I give it. Maybe I won't fly to see you. I can do a five minute call. Maybe I can't let you come to my conference for free, but I can give you a discount.
So there's many ways to be abundant.
Corey Kupfer: I love that. What I, yeah, because listen for, that is a challenge, because anything in the extreme is a problem. And I think for people who do cover a service and give, first mentality, there is this risk sometimes that they do give too much of themselves.
Mm hmm. Well, you know, and not take care of themselves, whether it's financially, time wise, energy, you know, all that kind of stuff. So I think it's a great point. I sort of think that, I haven't thought of it this way before, but when you were making that point, what popped into my mind is, the phrase is, give first, not give everything.
Ramon Ray: Mmm, yes. Love it, Corey.
Corey Kupfer: So, any other, tips or, things to watch out for in this area before maybe we move, onto another topic?
Ramon Ray: Yeah, I think, listen, be [00:26:00] careful. Watch out also for serendipity. It may not be exactly on point, Corey, but I know I found it my business. Because, if I put myself, In the right pool and then give the part of giving and serendipity always happens if that makes sense, you don't want to spread yourself too thin.
But if you're going to 10 conferences of people who you know, like and trust and want to be around, man. In that kind of field, all day long. Corey, you and I mentioned, you know, NSA, we're mutual colleagues in that. That's not a correct direct audience for mine, but you get what I'm saying. I'll give all day long in that defined group.
These are
my people.
Corey Kupfer: Yeah, that's great. So let's just spend a couple of minutes. So you have done a deal to sell one of your businesses in the past. Tell us a little bit about that. And, what was it like? You know, I mean, obviously, nothing confidential that you need to reveal.
How'd you sell it? What kind of business? How was it structured?
And any lessons from that experience?
Ramon Ray: Absolutely.
And this is kind of how I work. And I will say so full disclosure, Corey, as you kind of know, we've talked a bit personal. So to your audience, I'm not Mr. Finance. Numbers come a little [00:27:00] difficult for me.
Hopefully that gives hope to people. You don't have to be smart as a whipper, whatever, as numbers. Numbers come hard to me. I'm not, I'm analytical, but meaning. What do you call it? Corey? What kind of guy am I? I'm just, I'm on the marketing side of the house. The energy side. I'm not the, would you help me say that better,
Corey?
Corey Kupfer: No, no. Listen, it's interesting because Ramon, you're like, frankly, a lot of, entrepreneurs, right? You know, visionary forward facing out there. Passion, et cetera. Not, I mean, listen, I'm not a detail guy, let's speak human talks about visionaries, operators and processors and they're all crucial people in a business, especially if you want to scale it and us visionaries need people who are operators and, to execute stuff.
And we need people who are processors and we tend to sink at that stuff. So, you know, that's numbers is just a part of that.
Ramon Ray: So having said a good, and nor you, Corey, I see you though, as more of a numbers and a little, you have that side of the brain that. I don't have so much, but so going back to the deal, and this is how my playbook, I've only been one, but my playbook for second and third and all the other deals is that I had an event company, small, a small business summit.[00:28:00]
I launched it in 2005 with a partner of mine. And that's a whole other topic, but a partner of mine and how we got, how I got her partnership is amazing as well. And I'll just say it out, I don't know if anybody, I'm a, at the time I was a young, thin black guy. She was an older gray haired white lady. So it was just a comical, beautiful combination.
But so 2005, we had the idea to bring together entrepreneurs. 2006, we did our first event. We figured nobody will come, nobody will sponsor. Lo and behold, about 300 people came, and Intuit, Intel, and other brands signed on and sponsored. And so, a few years later, meaning now and today, events, a similar event is done, and et cetera, it's going strong.
So, how we did that, Corey, I had a relationship with a blogging company, a company that did blogging and events in the content space. The guy knew me. I had been to his event a few times. He knew of me. Lo and behold. You're chattering, you're talking to people, this is the key, I was in the swimming, in the pool, the [00:29:00] conversation flow, right time, right place, right person, they trusted.
And it so happened, he was looking to grow. So I'm like, listen, would you like to invest in, hopefully buy, more than invest in, my conference? And he said, yes. We got our lawyers together. He looked at my numbers. I looked at his numbers. And we figured out we had some synergies. And he gave me a multiple of the profit revenue.
I forgot which one it was. Multiple of that. And I sold the business. And that was my small business summit at the time. I did it, since the idea was 2005, launched in 2006. And then a few years later. I relaunched it under the Smart Hustle branding, but that was my first selling it and that goes back to the content space, which I hope to do second and third deals before I see I have two or three deals in me to do like that, build it to what I can, half a million dollars, quarter or so, maybe a million, and then find it to people who can do bigger than that, because I'm comfortable doing five to million, to five to a million, but it's okay to talk about numbers and other people can bring it to five, 10, 20 million.
That's just not my forte.
Corey Kupfer: And, listen, that level of self awareness is great, right? Because, too many [00:30:00] entrepreneurs hang on and there is a, there are people who would just jazz by starting something up, getting it going, getting it launched, getting people excited, have it become viable.
But then when it comes to, managing and maintenance and, and even, and, or even scaling, that's, you know, it's not, the strength and too many ever hang on. So it's, that's smarter view, to do. So actually let's, let's just spend, a couple of minutes cause you did, so we've talked about.
Your, influencer deals your sponsorship, deals, conferences, we've talked about, your sale of a business, but you did mention this business partnership and that is another type of deal is going into business with somebody and, and I love, the sort of, the way you described, like maybe my sense was she felt it was like two unlikely people to come together.
So I would love to hear that, how that story happened. And how, to the extent you're comfortable sharing it, how that business partnership was put together was just 50 50 with some other arrangement, so talk to me about that.
Ramon Ray: Yeah, and
feel free to pick out anything I'm leaving out for the audience's sake, you know deals better than me, so I may have something in a report to me.
But in a nutshell, the speeds and feeds of it, the lady's name was Marion Banker. We're no longer a partnership, not in a bad way, just we sold it and that's it. Marion Banker, [00:31:00] and she brought Corey, as I said, didn't say it so eloquently, the numbers and the business sense is a word, not, I have business sense, but a different side of it.
The, Ramon, let's do a profit and loss statement and did we get the deal yet, Ramon? Call them, get it, come on, be on their back. I brought what she didn't have, the sponsorship and marketing. So it was a great blend. Even when we first started, I said, Marian, I'm gonna put my credit card down, Roosevelt Hotel, Corey, right in near Grand Central.
That was the first event. I'm going to put the credit card down like 10, 000, maybe something like that. She's like, I don't know, Ramon. I'm not saying, man, I'm going. Okay. Okay. And so that's how we, when we had into it, she's like, okay, Ramon, you said they may sponsor. I'm like, for me, may means yes.
Money's in the bank. She's like, no, I don't see it yet in the bank. So I think you get the idea and you can help me unpack it more people. But that was how it worked relationship. Just, fricking frat, two people, different sides of the brain, different way we've been brought up and all that, but we came together and we trusted each other and we loved each other.
She was great and I see her online today. We, it was [00:32:00] 50 50 profits and that goes back to her strength. We put all the numbers up and expenses and at the end of it, we'd say, we great, we got a dollar left. And she'd cut me a check for 50 cents going back to that. She, we both had access to the bank account, but that was her strength.
And she loved the numbers and bills. Tax forms and all that. And I said, Marianne, God bless you. Go for it. Just send me my check.
Corey Kupfer: I
love it. So, that raised, listeners, that raises a number of things, right? So, when I hear what Ramon is saying is, one of the reasons why people go into business partnerships, and by the way, this is true, whether it's a business partnership where you both, own an entity or a project or an event, but it can be true for a joint venture or some sort of strategic alliance where it's structured differently.
But why are you doing a deal with someone else? Well, Ramon recognizes his strengths and weaknesses and areas that he needs. And he had a partner that was a perfect complement, right? That's a great reason to go into a business partnership. Now, sometimes there's tension between those two different, Because when, and I totally get it when Ron says, Hey, yeah, Intel said, maybe that's a yes.
And the numbers person would say, no,
that's not a yes. [00:33:00] The yes is what we have a check in the bank.
Ramon Ray: And it was so beneficial, Corey, with her doing that, because as you know, we forbid and you get what I'm saying. That's me, man. I'm like, if Corey says, Ramon, I may give a million dollars to you. It's in the bank.
I'm going to, I'm going to buy jet
now.
Corey Kupfer: Exactly. It's funny. This is not, is a little, it's not exactly the same scenario, but I, but it's a cool story. I do remember, a, so also, been active in the entrepreneurs organization, which is a global organization of successful, entrepreneurs.
And, there was somebody out of, I think it was one of the West Coast chapters, I'm trying to remember who it was, who, so to speak, actually had an interesting company. It was one of the first companies to put, spiritual texts, including the Bible, online. Wow. In the early days of the Internet.
And what I remember and I wish I can credit him, but I don't remember his name, but But he was at a he was speaking at a neo event and you know He's one of these visionary guys the same way, right? He's building it He's out there and he's you know, whatever and he has a vision. He wants to go do it Yeah, we'll find the money and and he said that he actually almost went bankrupt in his first company And, the reason he said it is because, and [00:34:00] this is, I love the way he said it.
He said, my problem was I had an optimistic CFO. And everybody sort of looked at him and they were like, he said, listen, the CFO role, the controller role, the accountant role, whatever you want to call it, the CFO role, you need somebody who's a counterbalance to you, basically what you heard Ramon say.
About his partner. She was a counterbalance to his like, Oh, it'll just show up, and mentality. And so, his lesson was in his future businesses is that, he needed, not enough, because he said in the first business, he would say, Oh, yeah, somebody will show up and the CMO was like, okay, he said, no, no, I need somebody who says, wait a second.
Are you sure? Maybe we don't have the budget for that. Let's talk about this some more, et cetera. So it's the same thing. It sounds like you found in
a partner.
Ramon Ray: And Corey, I'm telling you, man, it is so true. And I think to those points, from Corey and I to the audience listening, I don't think we're saying there's a right and wrong way.
Sometimes there is, but it's about trust. And I must say, Corey, we, going back to that scenario, we're, me and Corey are saying it quick in three seconds. It helps so much, Corey. For example, we got paid by a vendor. Let's say it was, I think about 25, 000. [00:35:00] Marion would be like, Ramon, I don't, I hit refresh every second in our bank account.
It's not there, it's not there. Now for me, I was cool as a cucumber. Because used to this, it could take three months, Corey. Six years, I mean, six months, not six years. They could get caught up in wire transfer, they sent the wrong account. So for me, since I've never been burned, now by the way, we had a legal agreement, me and her, but the point is we were able to work it out because, and she could push me like, Ramon, for my sake, can you please follow up
So I, I don't wanna talk all day about it, but it just, you're getting me so excited. It was a beautiful partnership because we appreciate each other. And I respected her. She respected me. She'd have to back down. And we had a little code, like something like, Ramon, let's do this. If we say it must be like this, we'll back off.
You know what I mean? Meaning we'd, we, as we were talking, okay, doesn't have to be shrimp or fish, who cares? But if I heard us a Ramon, yeah. It's got to be shrimp at the event. I'd be like, okay, Miriam,
go for it.
Corey Kupfer: Love it. Love it. So listen, we could speak for all day, but, but we are getting towards time here.
So I want to, I want to, I'm going to have a final question for you before, [00:36:00] but before I ask it, I want to give, listen, you've given so much value here. I'm sure, people are going to really want to know more about what you do and your conferences and your books. You're speaking and so what's the best place for people to find you?
Ramon Ray: I
appreciate the credit so much, but I'd be so grateful if your audience, enjoys what you're saying. Just go to ramonray. com, R A M O N R A Y, no N Y, no Y, no D, not Ramoncito, Ramon Ray. And just follow me, to Twitter, Instagram, add your email list if you want to hear more of it, and you'll hear everything I do.
That'd be the biggest thing people could do, just follow me, and that's the biggest
appreciation.
Corey Kupfer: That's great. Ramon, it's interesting for me, because my final question on this podcast series is always the same, and you've talked so much about it already, so it's interesting. So, as you know, authenticity is a big value of mine, and there's no accident my book is called Authentic Negotiating.
And, I talk about authentic deal making and authentic business relationships, all that kind of stuff. And to me, authenticity is not as different from the conversation of morality or even integrity, which is, integrity is important. But [00:37:00] it's this, for me, it's this conversation of self awareness and being aligned with your inner truth and making your business decisions, doing your business deals from that place as opposed to some external validation or ego or that kind of stuff.
And, you've talked so much about this already. In terms of whether it's, being authentic as a brand, being authentic to your clients. You've used that word so many times. So instead of just talking about how you're authentic, because I think the audience is clear on that, what I'd love to do is like, do you have any practices or ways, like, how do you make sure that your business decisions and deals and everything you do, is lined up?
How do you not get thrown off? Is there a way that you get connected to your authenticity and maintain it?
Ramon Ray: Yeah,
and tell me if I'm not sure if I'm answering it totally correctly. I know there's not a correct way, but you walk me through a bit more, but I think a few things, Corey. I think that a, I'll tell you a problem I've had, Gary V, Gary Vaynerchuk.
I love the guy, man. I mean, he does some things I don't agree with, but the point is his massive content, his agency, I like him and I like Seth Golden. Those are two people in business world who I call. I had a call with somebody and the point [00:38:00] is, and they said, Ramon, what game are you playing?
Cause I was frustrated. Corey really? And Steve Harvey's another guy like, and you know me, I've had some success, but we're doing Steve Harvey tweets, 10 million likes in 20 seconds. I'm like, right. Yeah. So, I, in the years past, Corey, I used to have this thing, when will I arrive?
But Corey, I've been happy with who I am. I've been blessed, make a good living, and there's luck in a huge stratosphere to be the Steve Harvey and Gary Vaynerchuk of the world. So, if that helps answer, I've really become at peace with I'm making a living way more than providing just for my family. And I've been blessed.
And so I've been happy with that. And the second thing I'll just add, Corey, I speak fast. I have the way I am as you've seen me do. I'm not polished as some others are, but I've been, again, happy with that because I realized, you know what? If people are buying, if the market's buying, if my speaking is growing, the version of Ramon they like.
I can't be Corey. And Corey's business is growing. I gotta be me. So that helped those two things I've been happy with and just been happy with. And that's
it. That's my answer, I think.
Corey Kupfer: I [00:39:00] love it. I love it. Ramon, man, thank you so much for being on the show.
Ramon Ray: Thank you, Corey, for having me, man. It is a pleasure.
And you're a great, great interviewer, Corey. Thank
you.
Corey Kupfer: Thank you for joining me on this episode of DealQuest, where we help you understand how deal driven growth can be your ticket to freedom. I want to invite you to a unique way to tap into the wisdom and experience of the DealQuest community. The Deal Den is a place where entrepreneurs, high level executives, and business leaders come together, support each other's growth and success, and share what's working best, as well as what challenges we are facing right now.
You will get input not only from me, but from all of our members. To join us, go to CoreyKupfer. com slash DealDeck. I'll see you there. I'm Corey Kupfer. Until next week, wishing you the freedom and financial prosperity that I know your DealQuest will bring.